Comments on: Writers and money, part 3 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3 For writers, readers, and independent thinkers--book talk for readers and writers, life chats when we need them, writers' motivational articles, secret behind-the-scenes stories from the publishing trenches, and more. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:30:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: robin http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12251 robin Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:10:07 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12251 Thanks, a. fortis! I need to hear that! Kelley, I'm glad you find this stuff helpful. I certainly do. I'm always interested in learning from other writers who are further down the road than I am. Patrick, der. Get on it. Barry, I thought Patrick was always right. That's what he says, at least. Thanks, a. fortis! I need to hear that!

Kelley, I’m glad you find this stuff helpful. I certainly do. I’m always interested in learning from other writers who are further down the road than I am.

Patrick, der. Get on it.

Barry, I thought Patrick was always right. That’s what he says, at least.

]]> By: a. fortis http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12248 a. fortis Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:23:18 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12248 Robin, I totally sympathize--we're just getting done with some household construction and it was really distracting! It'll all be worth it when it's done, though... Robin, I totally sympathize–we’re just getting done with some household construction and it was really distracting! It’ll all be worth it when it’s done, though…

]]> By: Kelley http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12233 Kelley Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:48:49 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12233 Just wanted to say thanks, all, for this advice/encouragement/reality check about writing. As one of those who hasn't finished a novel and who barely finds time to read fiction, much less write it, I'm definitely at the very beginning of this unpredictable adventure. It would be easy to say "forget it," but I long to write, whether or not my writing will ever be read by anyone other than me. The very act of writing on my novel is soul-cleansing for me. You'd think I'd make more time for it! Just wanted to say thanks, all, for this advice/encouragement/reality check about writing. As one of those who hasn’t finished a novel and who barely finds time to read fiction, much less write it, I’m definitely at the very beginning of this unpredictable adventure. It would be easy to say “forget it,” but I long to write, whether or not my writing will ever be read by anyone other than me. The very act of writing on my novel is soul-cleansing for me. You’d think I’d make more time for it!

]]> By: Barry http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12215 Barry Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:30:31 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12215 Pursuant to comment #6: Yes, Patrick doth speak true. Pursuant to comment #6: Yes, Patrick doth speak true.

]]> By: Patrick http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12214 Patrick Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:31:31 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12214 <i> but the first step is always finishing your work. </i> Are you trying to tell me something? but the first step is always finishing your work.

Are you trying to tell me something?

]]> By: robin http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12213 robin Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:17:41 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12213 Barry, thank you for the well-reasoned and snark-free comment. It felt good, didn't it? I think your analysis is right. And add to that Patrick's comment--love what you said to the captain, P. This all brings me back to my usual thought when someone says they've always wanted to be a writer: It's easy to start a novel, not so easy to finish one. The finishers are the ones who get to keep going. Maybe that's our version of a diploma. After that you still have to intern, but the first step is always finishing your work. Barry, thank you for the well-reasoned and snark-free comment. It felt good, didn’t it? I think your analysis is right.

And add to that Patrick’s comment–love what you said to the captain, P.

This all brings me back to my usual thought when someone says they’ve always wanted to be a writer: It’s easy to start a novel, not so easy to finish one. The finishers are the ones who get to keep going. Maybe that’s our version of a diploma. After that you still have to intern, but the first step is always finishing your work.

]]> By: Patrick http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12212 Patrick Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:59:02 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12212 I suspect that's because most people think because they can write a sentence, they can write a novel. I liken it to a conversation in high school, when the captain of the soccer team walked up to me - a track & field guy - and said, "If I ran everyday, I could be as fast as you. I mean, it's just running." to which I responded, "You're welcome to try." I suspect that’s because most people think because they can write a sentence, they can write a novel.

I liken it to a conversation in high school, when the captain of the soccer team walked up to me - a track & field guy - and said, “If I ran everyday, I could be as fast as you. I mean, it’s just running.”

to which I responded,

“You’re welcome to try.”

]]> By: Barry http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12211 Barry Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:57:27 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12211 Robin asks: "Why do we treat writing as a profession differently?" Because there is no codified, comprehensible, proven pathway to success. For medicine, the law, banking, etc., the steps are all outlined for you. There are tests to take at specific times, classes to take, licenses to apply for, and so on. And while knowing all of this does not make it AUTOMATIC that one will succeed, it at least gives context to one's attempts: If I go to law school, I know that I've hit a certain minimum threshold on my way to lawyerdom -- going to law school is the first step. If I am tenth in my class, I have a rough idea of where I rank with other lawyers, what sort of job/pay I can reasonably expect, and so on. That people can (and do) fail at such endeavors is immaterial -- the issue at hand is that they have a roadmap and if they are competent enough, they will be able to follow it, with relatively foreseeable consequences. Writers, however, have no roadmap whatsoever and certainly nothing even resembling foreseeable consequences. There are no licenses, no governing bodies, no required classes. (I think that the urge to HAVE a roadmap is what makes graduate courses in writing so popular -- those who wish to write as a profession feel like they're at least doing SOMETHING and taking positive action.) In writing, it is entirely possible to be competent (indeed, to be MAGNIFICENT) and to either fail miserably or never achieve one's due or never even break in. Whereas a competent lawyer WILL get a job as a lawyer, as long as he or she looks for one. Whew. An entire comment without snark. This is difficult for me. Robin asks: “Why do we treat writing as a profession differently?”

Because there is no codified, comprehensible, proven pathway to success.

For medicine, the law, banking, etc., the steps are all outlined for you. There are tests to take at specific times, classes to take, licenses to apply for, and so on. And while knowing all of this does not make it AUTOMATIC that one will succeed, it at least gives context to one’s attempts: If I go to law school, I know that I’ve hit a certain minimum threshold on my way to lawyerdom — going to law school is the first step. If I am tenth in my class, I have a rough idea of where I rank with other lawyers, what sort of job/pay I can reasonably expect, and so on.

That people can (and do) fail at such endeavors is immaterial — the issue at hand is that they have a roadmap and if they are competent enough, they will be able to follow it, with relatively foreseeable consequences.

Writers, however, have no roadmap whatsoever and certainly nothing even resembling foreseeable consequences. There are no licenses, no governing bodies, no required classes. (I think that the urge to HAVE a roadmap is what makes graduate courses in writing so popular — those who wish to write as a profession feel like they’re at least doing SOMETHING and taking positive action.)

In writing, it is entirely possible to be competent (indeed, to be MAGNIFICENT) and to either fail miserably or never achieve one’s due or never even break in. Whereas a competent lawyer WILL get a job as a lawyer, as long as he or she looks for one.

Whew. An entire comment without snark. This is difficult for me.

]]> By: robin http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12210 robin Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:38:36 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12210 That's an interesting comparison, Patrick. Because there is this idea that if you go into a "traditional" job like banker or doctor or lawyer, just deciding to head down that route equals getting to your destination. You don't think about the people who flunk out of law school or med school or who decide banking isn't for them. Why do we treat writing as a profession differently? That’s an interesting comparison, Patrick. Because there is this idea that if you go into a “traditional” job like banker or doctor or lawyer, just deciding to head down that route equals getting to your destination. You don’t think about the people who flunk out of law school or med school or who decide banking isn’t for them.

Why do we treat writing as a profession differently?

]]> By: Patrick http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12209 Patrick Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:20:40 +0000 http://robinbrande.com/writing/writers-and-money-part-3#comment-12209 I don't know how much I agree with Tess on that third post. I don't think law students enter college with any guarantee that they are going to pass the bar, yet that endeavor requires a little more upfront cash/loans - and I'm guessing, WAY more time than writing 10 crappy first novels. So, what can a law student who fails the bar make, after deducting for student loans? But, that's just my perspective... I don’t know how much I agree with Tess on that third post.

I don’t think law students enter college with any guarantee that they are going to pass the bar, yet that endeavor requires a little more upfront cash/loans - and I’m guessing, WAY more time than writing 10 crappy first novels.

So, what can a law student who fails the bar make, after deducting for student loans?

But, that’s just my perspective…

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